Public School Issues (very long, sorry)

karadawn

Alright you know me, I don't usually opening talk about personal stuff. But I'm about at my wits end here and feel safe enough to ask for some advice here. Sorry this is going to be VERY long........

My son is a rather "difficult" child. He's had behavior issues since he was in preschool (now in 1st grade). The first 2 years of preschool were handled pretty well, with a very simple system that the teacher used for the whole class (pull card system with 3 cards, and whenever they got in trouble a card was pulled). She'd report to me every day with a simple "green day, yellow day, or red day". If it was a good day, he got a quarter. If it was bad, we'd sit down to talk about the day, and I'd pry out of him what he did. He'd also lose things like computer (yes at 4 he was a computer wiz!) or some sort of special play time.

Kindergarten was pretty rough, but still not completely terrible. They took away the after school thing (said "we want the rewards or punishments more immediately" and absolutely would NOT let me do anything at home if he had a good or bad day), and honestly I think this is where they first went wrong. They started giving him rewards after specific chunks of the day. Had a few trips to the office, and usually I got called if it was more than once in a week. Although I saw this really wasn't working because sometimes when offered a reward for being good for half the day he'd pass. I mean really just say "no thanks, I don't need a reward". That should have been their first red flag right there.

Moving on to 1st grade wasn't too bad. First week was a little rough, but he adjusted and liked his teacher. She was pretty firm with him, and I think he picked up on that immediately. The last teacher did the "sweet voice" which I don't think he responded to as well. Had some problems this year with the special classes (PE, Art, Music, etc), but nothing extreme. Teacher kept telling me he was great for her.

Then somewhere in mid March, and all hell broke lose. He has been absolutely HORRIBLE ever since, to the point where I started taking him to a counselor outside of the school because he was really freaking out on me if I even mentioned school, and saying things like "I hate my life, I don't want to live anymore". Yes this is serious, he's only 7!! (Actually 8 next week).

The school was more than puzzled as to what was going on. I have some theories which include a specific kid who Chase tells me they fight. Right around this time was when I started to hear about how much him and this other kid didn't like each other. The school tells me this kid is "kind of annoying to everyone" (yes THEIR words!!!) and didn't think he was the main problem. Not only that, but when the first really bad day happened they threatened to send him home because they thought he "wasn't getting anything out of being there". I know he picked up on this or heard it somehow even though they now deny telling him. Regardless, it was just multiple problems and he fought until they DID send him home one day (and a few days since, so basically giving him exactly what he wanted).

So because things are so bad and they just are NOT listening to me (every suggestion I make they turn it completely around so it's making it WORSE), I've thought about homeschooling. The thought scares the hell out of me, but honestly I don't think he's EVER going "fit" in the system. I know there ARE some kids who just can not go to public school because it doesn't fit them. Still homeschooling.....eh, I just don't know.

Well then yesterday I went in to the school (their idea - wanted me to "observe" and see what all goes on). O.M.G. I wanted to pull him out right then and there. I have seen some things like they way they DRAG (yes DRAG HIM) to the office when he's throwing a fit, or him getting mad and trying to throw punches at them (which puzzles me because he really never even tries that with me). But yesterday.......holy crap it's no wonder he's having such problems!!

First thing in the morning they give him 5 or 10 mins to play with a friend in another room. Alright, reward for nothing. He knows exactly why he's getting this too because he's a "difficult kid" (and yes he told me one day "I get rewards because I'm both good and bad"). Then they took him back to class and two special ed teachers sat on either side of him with his desk pulled completely way from the rest of the kids. Basically trapped him. I know I would be freaking out at that point! So then he starts working and gets no more than his name down on a paper, then throws his pencil. Apparently something the special ed teacher said to him he didn't like. So I'm watching expecting them to tell him to pick up his pencil or something, but NOPE! They ask if he wants a break or do work to "earn free time". HUH????? I'm not kidding! They asked if he wanted to take a break, which is going down to this one room where there are TOYS. Why work to "earn" free time when they are just handing it to him either way??

So biting my tongue I follow. They set the timer for 2 minutes and I'm thinking ok they'll tell him to go back to class after that. NOPE again! They asked if he wanted "another break". Shocked

FOUR TIMES they did this, until he finally said he wanted to go back to class (kinda floored me it only took "4 breaks" for him to go back).

Ok so go back to class, and he sits down. Didn't do the work but starts freaking out on them. Puts his head in his desk, starts yelling shut up at them (which they DID! UGH!!!!), then starts to punch them. I'm thinking ok here we go, punching so not cool he's in trouble now. HA NOPE! They said "Don't hit chase, we don't hit you" in a nice voice. Ummmm huh? Yeah so he continues to throw punches, then knocks over his desk. THEN they both just grabbed him on either side and started dragging him to the office. I really didn't hear a warning either (like "do you want to go the office?? If not, STOP IT!"). They just quietly grabbed him, took him to the office, and shut the door. What was said after that I don't know.

So anyway, I'm thinking this is such a mess that there's just no way to turn it around now. The breaks were my idea, but not the way they were doing it. All I said was when he starts to get FRUSTRATED with school work of some sort, it helps if he takes a break. Well they are using them way too much and before they should. He's got them figured out and using them to avoid doing the work all together. Not only that, but I feel like they are treating him like a special ed kid (someone who can't HELP his behavior) instead of a kid with behavior problems (someone who CAN help it, and needs to be taught how to NOT act like that).

Sorry this is so long, but I'd love to hear some opinions here. Is it just the mommy gene kicking in here wanting to protect my kid, or do you think what the school is doing is really wrong? I mean I don't see how they can just get him back in a normal school setting at this point. And when they send work home I can get him to do it (with a little fighting, yes, but nothing like I saw at school yesterday). So should I be really thinking about homeschooling next year? I've looked into it here and there, but it really scares me. Still it's getting to the point where he really isn't learning anything because they have him isolated, and he's being treated separate from the other kids pretty much destroying the social aspect of school.

Thoughts, help, advice......all appreciated at this point!!!! Sad

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Bev · Posted: May 1, 2008, 11:16 pm Post subject:

Wow, Kara! I'm in shock here.... Shocked

I think they are definitely doing quite a bit wrong here.... Does your child have ADD or ADHD? Does he have an IEP? If he does, they were supposed to sit down with you at the beginning of the year and discuss how they were going to handle it when he has problems at school.... and you're supposed to have meetings throughout the year to discuss his progress.

Unfortunately, teachers today are scared to death to "make" a child do anything! If he throws a pencil, he should be told to pick it up, or suffer the consequences... not given a break!

I've never thought I could handle home schooling the girls... even though I'm sure I could if I had to. Heck, I was a girl scout leader for years and did all the weekly plans to earn projects and stuff! But we're talking a day to day commitment, not just once a week. To be honest, my biggest fear was that they would know more than me once they got older and I couldn't teach them well enough! Laughing

But when they are still little, like Chase is, you could definitely do it.

Now they offer cyber school for kids once they get older. Becca's best friend was home schooled till she was in 7th grade, then did cyber school in 8th grade, then came to the high school for 9th grade.

If you do home school, I would make sure that I keep him very active in either sports or other extracurricular activities that the school offers so that he has contact with other kids. He's allowed to be involved in anything the other kids do... band, sports, clubs, etc.

I guess I don't have any real advice for you... but want to give you a big hug.... I know this can't be easy at all for you Crying or Very sad

Bev
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karadawn · Posted: May 2, 2008, 1:21 am Post subject:

He has an IEP, and yes we've had meetings. They put in behavior plans (a reward system), but do a poor job of keeping it the same long enough for it really make a difference. Plus it's always been ineffective and I've told them this (he really doesn't care about rewards half the time, and the teacher has told them this too.....they don't listen well). They also take every suggestion I give and flip it so it's ineffective (the breaks were a good example). Right now they've called in a "specialist" that deals with his behavior that was suppose to be here today, which has me scratching my head as to why they let it get this bad before doing so. Who was the other person then? Just someone off the street? Grrr........

Anyway, he is not ADD but has some of the signs. At a glance you might think he does, but on closer inspection he does not. He is very active, yet can focus on a book for longer than most kids his age (he reads at night before he goes to bed, and sometimes I have to get after him to go to sleep because he can read for an hour or more!). So no, not ADHD because they usually can't focus on something or sit still for that long.

Cyber school........ahhh I wish. Not available in Iowa. Crying or Very sad

Yes if we do homeschool we'll be dual enrolled for basically PE so he gets not only activity but interaction with his class mates. Plus being dual enrolled will get us "in" for extra school stuff (field trips and other special stuff).

Thanks for the hug Bev, it's much appreciated. I'm so flipping frustrated right not it's not even funny, and I think the school not listening to me is just making it worse. I mean I'm just mom, what do I know about my own kid? *sigh*
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Denise · Posted: May 6, 2008, 1:48 am Post subject:

Kara, I'm so sorry. And how sad for your little guy! My son Darian HATED school too and we ended up removing him at the end of grade 3.

When he was 7, I would walk him to the bus stop, which is a few houses away, and he would actually thrown himself down on the sidewalk, intentionally trying to hurt himself because he didn't want to go to school.

He's also an expert manipulator, and he would pretend to be sick at school. The teachers would call me and ask me to come get him. Once I realized he was just pretending so I would pick him up, I told the teachers what he was up to, but they didn't believe me.

He's a smart and very creative guy, but his attitude towards school was starting to affect his marks. In fact, one of the teachers told me Darian just couldn't learn.

One of the deciding factors for me was talking to my younger brother, who is really bright but who dropped out of school when he was 16 because he hated it so much. He explained to me how school had made him feel when he was a kid, which helped me understand how Darian felt.

I'm not at all against public schools, because I do understand they do their very best, and they do work well for a lot of kids. But the teachers just didn't understand Darian and how he learns as well as I do.

If you're thinking of homeschooling, it is scary and very hard at first. We started when Darian was 9 and Cassidy was 7. I was terrified, and I had no idea if it would work, but I knew we had to do something drastic to turn Darian around.

This year, Darian is finishing grade 8 and Cass is finishing grade 6, and it's going so well, we're planning on homeschooling until the end of high school. They both take the same exams every other kid in our province does, and they both have nearly straight A's. Every day Darian tells me how much he loves his life, which I think is pretty amazing for any 14 year old to say.

(Just my personal plug for homeschooling, sorry about that)

But, I mostly want to tell you that you're his mom, and you know him best! Go with your instincts. Teachers are wonderful people, and they have a lot of training, but they can't understand your son the way you do.
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karadawn · Posted: May 8, 2008, 12:56 am Post subject:

You don't know how much better that post made me feel! I am just so frustrated with the school at this point it's not even funny.....so yes I'm pretty sure we are going to be homeschooling next year.

Honestly you could have been describing my son. He really does know how to manipulate, and they are playing right into him. Either that or they are doing things (like dragging him down the hall) that are not helping in the least. This poor kid doesn't have a chance in that school. Plus now they are trying to point the finger at me (my friend was walking down the hall this morning and overheard them talking about my son.....she about went off the deep end and called me the minute she got home).

First they kept asking me if he got enough sleep or would say "did he get to bed late last night?". NO, we are pretty strict with bedtime around here and he's always asleep before 9pm (we don't get up until 7am). Some days he's up before I am.

Now they keep asking me if he eats breakfast. Sometimes, but not always, and it's not because I don't feed him. We ALWAYS have easy breakfast foods (cereal, toast, waffles, etc). Long before he has to go I ask if he wants breakfast. So he has time and he has food.....but I can't make him eat if he doesn't want to! Well Monday he was saying his stomach hurt and they asked if he ate (which he didn't want anything Monday). They felt the need to call me and say "we gave him crackers but maybe you can make sure he eats in the morning". After figuring out he can do this, he of course repeats it yesterday. They called again saying I should "put him in the breakfast program". ARG! He ATE yesterday morning! THEN today my friend overhears them in the hall saying "If he would just EAT in the morning he'd do SO much better and we wouldn't have problems". Oh it CAN'T be the school's fault now can it? Heck no! Rolling Eyes

Sorry I'm just so flipping mad right now. As if the daily phone calls for one thing or another wasn't bad enough, I now have to hear from friends they are questioning my parenting skills when I'm not around. It's like they are looking for any thing they possibly can to avoid taking the blame for his behavior. There's less than a month left of school now, and I am so thankful. I don't know what we would do if we had to put up with this for longer!
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lorettaa · Mineral Girlz Expert Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 290

Hi Kara,

I feel for you. I went through many of the same issues and I home school my daughter who just turned 7 in April.

I was being called to the office everyday. She was refusing to do her work, she was crumbling her papers, she was sitting under her desk. This elevated to she was pushing her books off her desk and knocking over her chair.

We went though many discussions with the school and tried some different ideas. She could have a marker on her desk that she could use if she starts to feel frustrated, then she could go to the book area and read if she wanted to. Of course the book area is going to be more fun than doing her work. Then she would be removed from the room and work with another staff member one-on-one.

The odd part was that she did not refuse to go to school everyday. I didn't really have any unusual issues other than her being a little tired. But she never gave me a hard time about going.

The last straw was when I was called to the office one day at pick up time and I saw her on the floor through the glass bottom of the door and she is crying and wanting to get out the door and they are holding the door shut. That is when I said we're done. I had already been researching homeschool extensively by that point.

The funny thing is that her grades were pretty good. She is a good reader and good at math. She hates to write (for school). She also is not interested in breakfast in the morning. She has to be up for an hour or so before she is ready for breakfast. She is also good on the computer.

We have been seeing a doctor because she did have sleep issues. She would be awake until after midnight a lot of nights. In bed, but awake. We have resolved that problem. We're thinking about trying to send her back next year, but we need to talk to the doctor more. She is not ADD or ADHD.

We are homeschooling using workbooks, dvds, unit themes from online programs, Time4Learning, a homeschool co-op in our area, library, field trips, etc..

Hang in there and if there is any comfort in knowing you are not alone...you are not alone. Smile

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karadawn · Posted: May 12, 2008, 5:39 pm Post subject:

Loretta I could have sworn you were just describing my son. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING you just said was him to a T. The fits, not wanting to write at school (even though we've seen him write and he's SO good at it!), good at reading and math, loves the computer, sometimes refuses breakfast, hardly ever actually refuses to go to school, has night terrors (he doesn't really wake up, but I've seen him sleep walk), not ADD/ADHD.......just everything about your daughter fits my son!

How did she do homeschooling this year? Did she get her work done better at home? We've had a few assignments sent home here and there, and he usually does them for me but we still have some problems. How is your state law set up? Did she have to take an assessment test after her first year of homeschooling? Does she want to be at home or school?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm just amazed how similar they are!
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pattygale · Joined: 13 Sep 2004 Posts: 703 Location: Wisconsin

Kara,

I wish I had some words of wisdom, but unfortunately I don't.. Crying or Very sad

Just know I've got you covered with cyber-hugs ((((HUGS)))) and hope you get to a resolution soon.

Patty
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usborne · Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 30 Location: NC

(This is sorta long)
Sorry that you and your son are going through this! Both my boys are LD and were tested in 1st and 2nd grade.(one each yr) They are both very smart in most everything they do now in school. If it wasn't for my sister working with the EC kids, mine would not have gotten the attention that they needed. She started out as an assistant and went on to get her degree later. I requested that Tyler be pulled out of his regular class into the classroom that she was in, for certain subjects. The EC teacher she worked with went to workshops throughout the year, to learn new ways of teaching. Even though she had been there a long time, seems like the kids that were in her class were the only ones making progress. (they do not have what we knew in school as "special ed" any more, but now are called Exceptional Children) The other EC teachers just did not "teach". My children were there to learn! They also like many other kids now days learn with "hands on" teaching. Something that the older teachers that have been there a long time just don't do. Kids, get bored when they have to sit and listen to someone preach.
They hated kindergarten(and their teacher). She was still teaching the same way that she had taught 25 years ago! We disagreed on several things! One day, I just happen to "drop in" to pick them up early and low and behold one of the boys was setting in the hall, couldn't set still, crying. Come to find out he had a double ear infection! I was sooo pissed! She had even made the remark that my boys were not as advanced as some of the other kids, because I stayed at home with them instead of them going to a daycare! Not something to say to a sahm!!

Anyway, what I am trying to say is if you choose to teach him at home you can do it! I know many moms that took their kids out of school at that age, and homeschooled. I on the other hand, felt that mine would better off away from home.
I feel for you, because I was the one that cried after I left them at school, not knowing what she would do. But they didn't learn in her class, so 1st grade they were behind and had to work twice as hard. There was no way I was going to put them thru kindergarten another year! I was lucky enough to request who my boys would have all the way thru elementary school. They are soon to be sophmores in highschool and make A's and B's and enjoy school now.

Is there any other teachers that you have heard good things about, or for that matter can sit in on? Other schools close by that can offer your son something different? Are these teachers "hands on" teachers? He might be bored. I love a teacher that can take a lesson and make it fun so that any child can learn, wheather they have a disability or not!

Sorry that this is so long but this subject upsets me. The school is not going to ruffle any feathers if it doesn't have to. But you as a parent need to put your foot down and make them listen!
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karadawn · Posted: May 16, 2008, 2:21 am Post subject:

Whew what a post! And you know more and more it seems there are problems with teachers and school settings. Unfortunately our school district is very small and doesn't have all the programs it should. Chase is literally "one of a kind" out here.

lorettaa · Mineral Girlz Expert Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 290

Hi Kara,

We have only been homeschooling since the end of January of this year. We are under an umbrella program that is approved by our state. Basically the umbrella school does a couple of reviews a year to verify that Heather is on track.

We have our good days and our bad days. There are some days where she will do her work with no issues. Other days it seems like a constant battle. I try to mix things up to make it interesting. And sometimes even make it like we are "playing" school.

She likes some aspects of being homeschooled like no homework, more breaks, and less time to get her work done. Since she gets individual attention it doesn't take all day to get her work done. On the other hand sometimes it takes all day because we have several breaks in-between to keep our sanity.

She does miss some of her classmates. I am friends with a couple of the moms so we still see some of them. Plus, she is in Brownies and lacrosse and she has neighborhood friends to play with.

I'm not sure if we will continue homeschool next year. We're thinking that things may be better now that she is sleeping better and by the time September comes along she may be a little more mature. We're going to check with the doctor to get her opinion too.
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